So many points here that are very odd.
We havent had written teamsheets for years.
They wouldnt write him in anyway as if he isnt registered it would be a red flag.
If he played the whole season why wouldnt he just register?
If he really hasnt registered you would need photo or video evidence of him playing this season.
I suggest you take this up with the Association
Dig deeper he holds no registration, ring up NWSFA and request them to confirm his registration on the actual registration system
More then likely they've manually written him into the team sheet however he's no registered
Jack Fulton completed the whole premier league season with no registration to NER
How does this work, does anyone have the NWSFA competition rules? Playing 1 game with a unregistered normally means deduction of 3 points, what does it mean if its the whole season... they'd be in negative right ? and relegated
If I was the team being relegated, I'd be infuriated.
NER = Rats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dig deeper he holds no registration, ring up NWSFA
> and request them to confirm his registration on
> the actual registration system
>
> More then likely they've manually written him into
> the team sheet however he's no registered
What do you mean he's not registered? You can't get onto the Icompman database without a valid rego number
No part of this make any sense
Why would he be on the team list every week if he wasn't registered
Why would some random be ringing NWSFA to check the registration status of opposition players.
Not sure what nerds did to piss off so many teams this year, when we played them they were a shit team but no dirtier than any other team in the comp.
First the hawks 'goal' drama now this, Epping FC must be desperate to stay up in prems
I wonder how many players in the comp get paid?
I reckon you could count them on one hand comfortably.
Does it go against the spirit of the competition?
NER have form here as i believe they paid Nick Hugh to leave Macquarie Uni and play SL for them
Anyone who pays a player to kick a ball around at this level is beyond stupid. Its literally meaningless park football, if youre the player then gouge the fool for as much as you can get but if youre willing to fork out money to players at this level then please dont reproduce.
From previously experience the best you could get out of NER was free registration, usually to retain MVPs or secure new prospects.
Paid to play would be a new, if that is the case with JF. Looks like he earned it.
If NER had the budget to pay players pretty sure would have brought in some players
to replace the useless flogs they had running around this year or that dickhead coach Jamal
Oh well Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did hear around that Kenthurst and Brookvale FC
> in the Manly-Warringah Comp did or do pay certain
> players at this level
Haha maybe cover rego for the odd player but thats about as far as KEN went lol
Am a mate of Nick's. He didn't get paid at NER. Wanted to play with Anthony Kalidas who came over from the UK and knew some other NER players. You all sound like a bunch of flops who make assumptions on an online forum. I'll back someone else's comment..NER are shut but other players/people from teams in this league just sound like complete losers.
I heard a club lodged an appeal on PL/SL promotion/relegation as a full season wasnt played so therefore unconstitutional. Unlucky for Dragons if true.
Lets hope Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great, one less shit field in the comp.
Lets say that NER stay up next season. They will no doubt lose Fulton to NPL, what an embarrassment they will be next season...
Only reason why they did half as well was because he carried them single-handedly out of relegation. Otherwise those spuds would not get close to 7 points this season.
They have to do some serious recruiting, otherwise it might be the most painful moment of their history.
Epping are cool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really disappointed....
> whats the point of having rules..?
> so we now have the OK go get a star player for
> next season,
> and they dont have to register?
> maybe someones mate who plays in a higher league?
Apologies, i thought you were talking about the relegation issue with the vote
Epping are cool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im from Epping
> We were shit but played by the rules ....
> so if this is true we deserve to stay up in PL
I think you contradicted yourself there pal.
In any case epping committee have already said they are going down without a fuss as thats what was voted on.
It seems to be another club which this doesnt affect with an axe to grind.
Everyone else happy with the vote and props to epping for not wanting to move tge goalposts after being relegated
Really disappointed....
whats the point of having rules..?
so we now have the OK go get a star player for next season,
and they dont have to register?
maybe someones mate who plays in a higher league?
Con Tradiction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Epping are cool Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Im from Epping
> > We were shit but played by the rules ....
> > so if this is true we deserve to stay up in PL
>
>
> I think you contradicted yourself there pal.
> In any case epping committee have already said
> they are going down without a fuss as thats what
> was voted on.
> It seems to be another club which this doesnt
> affect with an axe to grind.
> Everyone else happy with the vote and props to
> epping for not wanting to move tge goalposts after
> being relegated
If Jack played unregistered then im sure all PL clubs would have a problem with that, not just Epping..
Rules are rules, and it clearly effected the table. If it's true they should be relegated.
Peel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can confirm he is on the icompman database as a
> registered NER player for this season.
Why is this argument still going on when a known poster from Ravens confirmed Jack was registered. Theres literally zero evidence showing NER did anything wrong aside from being shit at football
Toovey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True Juice.
> But what they are saying is that he wasnt
> deregisted from manly.
If that's the case, then that is on FNSW & NWSF not NER as both FNSW & NWSF would have had to approve his NWSF registration
The only the matter can be investigated is if a formal complaint is lodged by a club.
GPT cant investigate anything on the basis of a rumour, doesnt matter if the season is over it can still be investigated.
Voltaren Rapid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it definitely didn't come from an Epping club
So what was the result tonight pal?
So??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Voltaren Rapid Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > it definitely didn't come from an Epping club
>
>
> So what was the result tonight pal?
NSW 34 QLD 10
Voltaren Rapid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So??? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Voltaren Rapid Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > it definitely didn't come from an Epping club
> >
> >
> > So what was the result tonight pal?
>
> NSW 34 QLD 10
Tail between your legs?
Get a life big boy
The current GPT board Are corrupt they have their favourite clubs.you just have to look at some of the suspension they have handed down this year its mind boggling.
Ex GPT MEMBER Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The current GPT board Are corrupt they have their
> favourite clubs.you just have to look at some of
> the suspension they have handed down this year
> its mind boggling.
Why is it that the same person is commenting on this post on a regular basis, using different names? You do know that comments are tracked via IP Addresses...
Just wait for the process to finish. Calling out the GPT ain't gonna do anything for your favour if you actually want to remain in PL for next season...
What is going on... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ex GPT MEMBER Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The current GPT board Are corrupt they have
> their
> > favourite clubs.you just have to look at some
> of
> > the suspension they have handed down this year
> > its mind boggling.
>
> Why is it that the same person is commenting on
> this post on a regular basis, using different
> names? You do know that comments are tracked via
> IP Addresses...
>
> Just wait for the process to finish. Calling out
> the GPT ain't gonna do anything for your favour if
> you actually want to remain in PL for next
> season...
Do you know how a GPT panel is appointed?
Its not the same panel of members every time there is a hearing.
The current GPT Chairperson Kath Odgers is out of her depth when it comes to this role.
The same can be said of NWSF General Manager Mark Lockie, his distribution of required paperwork through a process has been less than diligent.
If either of these 2 people cant do the job correctly then find another position.
Yep agree about Kath Odgers.
I know everyone says they are innocent but one of my players got a suspension for nothing. I proved the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted as such.
Same suspension stood.
Wanted to save face i suppose.
How do you compete with that?
Yep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep agree about Kath Odgers.
> I know everyone says they are innocent but one of
> my players got a suspension for nothing. I proved
> the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted as
> such.
> Same suspension stood.
> Wanted to save face i suppose.
> How do you compete with that?
Whilst Kath Odgers doesnt sit on an GPT or AT panel she is responsible for providing documentation to those who have been charged with an Offence under the Table of Offences.
Between Kath Odgers and Mark Lockie the delivery of documentation such as evidence to be relied upon is provided in a drip fed rate across a number of days.
No idea, either of them.
FBI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yep agree about Kath Odgers.
> > I know everyone says they are innocent but one
> of
> > my players got a suspension for nothing. I
> proved
> > the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted as
> > such.
> > Same suspension stood.
> > Wanted to save face i suppose.
> > How do you compete with that?
>
> Whilst Kath Odgers doesnt sit on an GPT or AT
> panel she is responsible for providing
> documentation to those who have been charged with
> an Offence under the Table of Offences.
>
> Between Kath Odgers and Mark Lockie the delivery
> of documentation such as evidence to be relied
> upon is provided in a drip fed rate across a
> number of days.
>
> No idea, either of them.
GPT havent been all bad this year.
A NER coach in the womens comp this year basically escaped a season ban because he was falsely accused by the ref of swearing at him when it was the crowd.
Coach was let off after multiple statements from different witnesses and the ref got reprimanded.
Not all bad... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FBI Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yep Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Yep agree about Kath Odgers.
> > > I know everyone says they are innocent but
> one
> > of
> > > my players got a suspension for nothing. I
> > proved
> > > the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted
> as
> > > such.
> > > Same suspension stood.
> > > Wanted to save face i suppose.
> > > How do you compete with that?
> >
> > Whilst Kath Odgers doesnt sit on an GPT or
> AT
> > panel she is responsible for providing
> > documentation to those who have been charged
> with
> > an Offence under the Table of Offences.
> >
> > Between Kath Odgers and Mark Lockie the
> delivery
> > of documentation such as evidence to be relied
> > upon is provided in a drip fed rate across a
> > number of days.
> >
> > No idea, either of them.
>
> GPT havent been all bad this year.
>
> A NER coach in the womens comp this year
> basically escaped a season ban because he was
> falsely accused by the ref of swearing at him when
> it was the crowd.
>
> Coach was let off after multiple statements from
> different witnesses and the ref got reprimanded.
Did that coach happen to be related to a certain normo coach that got a similar suspension? Maybe its a family trait
I think you will find reports from officials, witnesses, opposition coach and managers that some come signed and some not signed that need to be chased and or Club response timings all impacts the flow of GPT paperwork. Throw in a COVID year where people have less access to their office and scanners to forward signed statements hasn't helped. Not all eye witnesses first priority in life is writing and signing statements about footballers punching on or abusing others in Park Football.
Can we stop whinging about the GPT and get back to trying to get the ratdog NERDs out of the PL?
I heard from a friend that the young guys in ressies were offered juice to help bulk up. Whats the drug testing policy of nwsfa?
Epping is cool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fulton was still registered with manly for first 3
> games..!!
> When do the jokers meet to make it official?
Lay off the drugs, too much smack talk without any facts coming from ya - sorry epping fc got relegated in the end, wasnt strong enough to survive this season
Confirmed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's confirmed. North Epping are going down,
> Epping staying in PL
> What a finish to a season!!!
Surely youre on something, where are your sources from?!
The process is still going ahead. Jack Fulton has created a technical problem within the registration process however as someone previously has posted, the reason why the decision is taking long is determining whether NER should be stripped away from the PL based on a FNSW/NWSF error of judgment. NER have done no wrong. But technically by the book, it's completely unfair for the rest of the comp that a mix-up in the de-registering of a player has meant that they have stayed in the PL when everyone knows that if this player didn't play, NER would have barely got 5 points.
Don't you worry. We will know the result. The Epping coach (stan) who has been posting anonymously under his work email address will be either fuming if Epp go down or be sticking it to everyone on the forum if NER go down.
The above poster is only hearing the strong rumours that it is very likely that Epping will stay up but the complications around everything means everyone needs to be more patient.
This issue was first raised on this forum on October 15.
I dont know if NWSF became aware of this by reading the forum (which they do, often) or beforehand.
Give them the benefit of the doubt and say October 15, they have known about it for 7 weeks ago.
How long does it take to investigate and make a decision on this?
Meanwhile clubs are starting to trial players in the coming weeks and these two clubs dont even know which division they will be playing in next season.
Surey the Association need to pull their fingers out
For those interested. Here are the constitutional regulations around player registration straight from NSWF.
5.3. PLAYERS REGISTERED TEAM
5.3.1. No player may be registered with more than one Football Association at any one time in any
one competition season.
5.3.2. No player may be registered with more than one Member Club of the Association at any one
time in any one competition season.
5.3.3. No player may be registered with more than one team with the Association at any one time
in any one competition season.
5.3.4. Any registered player proved to have played in any competition match of Association
Football outside the Association without the permission of the DM may be suspended for a
period to be determined by the GPT.
5.3.5 To be eligible to play in round 1 of the winter season, players must be registered in the
Associations competition management system and authorised by their Club no later than
10am on the Tuesday prior to the first round and be authorised by the Association prior to
the commencement of the round.
5.3.6 Subject to clause 5.3.7, for players registering after round 1, provided players are registered
in the Associations competition management system and authorised by their Club by 10am
on Wednesday, and authorised by the Association prior to the round, they are eligible to play
from the immediately following weekends round
5.3.7 No player may be registered with the Association after close of business, two full working
days prior to the 30 June. Clubs must seek confirmation from the Association that players
being registered in the last week prior to 30 June are authorised by the Association prior to
their participation in a fixture.
5.4. PLAYER REGISTRATION PROCESS
5.4.1. Any person wishing to participate in competitions, or matches conducted by the Association
shall be properly registered with the Association.
5.4.2. No contracted player shall register with the Association.
5.4.3. Any player under suspension or disqualification from any Association, Federation or Club may
be accepted for registration, but cannot play or otherwise take any part in any match until
the period of suspension has been served in full. Suspended players must be registered to
serve their sentence.
5.4.4. A player shall become a registered player with the Association once all of the following have
taken place
5.4.4.1. The player, or parent/guardian if the player is under the age of 18 years at the date of
registration, has completed and authorised an FFA Registration System electronic registration thus agreeing to abide by the Rules and Regulations of FFA, FNSW, the
Association and the Club.
5.4.4.2. The player has paid the relevant Club registration fee.
5.4.4.3. The Club has submitted to the Association the players registration and digital photograph
in the manner prescribed by the Association.
5.4.5. Registration of a player requires submission to the Association of a digital photograph of the
player meeting the requirements of this clause and of Schedule 3 (Clause 08). Registration of
players will not be accepted if they are submitted without a suitable digital photograph, or
with digital photographs not meeting these requirements.
5.4.5.1. Registered photographs shall be updated a minimum of every two (2) years for players
seeking registration in Grades up to Under 16 years.
5.4.5.2. Photographs for players seeking registration in Grades Under 17 to All Age, Over Age,
Premier League and Super League shall be updated a minimum of every three (3) years.
5.4.5.3. The registered photograph shall be updated where the Club or the Association considers a
player has sufficiently changed their appearance, or that the submitted photograph does
meet requirements, such that the player is not easily recognised from the current
registration photograph.
5.4.6. For the purposes of the Accident Support Program, a player is considered registered with
the Club from the time they complete the aforesaid FFA Registration System electronic
registration and may submit a claim to the insurance company upon the Club completing the
players registration with the Association.
5.4.7. Where a player has a legal name change during the current competition year, they shall
notify their Club and the Club shall notify the Association in writing of the players legal name
for the Association to update team registrations and Photo IDs.
5.5. CHANGING A PLAYERS REGISTERED TEAM AND/OR CLUB
5.5.1. A Club may apply to the DM in writing for permission for a player to be downgraded within
their Club where they are Age Eligible for the lower grade. Downgrading for players from the
grade/division in which they are registered to another grade or division shall cease after the
fourth match of the Premiership Competition.
5.5.2. A Club may apply to the DM in writing for permission for a player to be transferred within
their Club between Mixed and Womens competitions where they are Age Eligible and
Gender Eligible for the new grade. Such transfers shall cease after the fourth match of the
Premiership Competition of the players currently registered team.
5.5.3. A player having been registered with the Association as a member of a Club may deregister
from that Club and register with another Club upon the Club notifying the Association in
writing that the player has been deregistered in the FFA Registration System.
5.5.4. Where a player deregisters from one Club and registers with another Club, the Association
shall determine the fees to be charged to each Club, ensuring players and Clubs are not
double charged for the same service (e.g. insurance).
5.5.5. No registered player may deregister from one Club and register with another Club on more
than one occasion in any one competition season.
5.5.6. Any player who seeks to deregister from one Club and register with another Club and is
refused a clearance from their Club may appeal in writing to the DM for permission to
register with another Club.
5.5.7. No player may be deregistered from one Club and registered with another Club, or from one
team to another team within a Club, after the close of player registrations as in Clause 0.
5.5.8. For Mixed and Womens Competitions, if an affiliated Club has more than one registered
team playing in the same grade and division, it shall not permit any player to interchange
within these teams unless the interchange is previously sanctioned by the DM.
5.5.9. For Mixed and Womens Competitions, transfer of the registration of a player of a Club
between teams in the same grade and division or in the same grade and a lower division may
be sanctioned by the DM.
Oddball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This issue was first raised on this forum on
> October 15.
>
> I dont know if NWSF became aware of this by
> reading the forum (which they do, often) or
> beforehand.
>
> Give them the benefit of the doubt and say October
> 15, they have known about it for 7 weeks ago.
> How long does it take to investigate and make a
> decision on this?
>
> Meanwhile clubs are starting to trial players in
> the coming weeks and these two clubs dont even
> know which division they will be playing in next
> season.
>
> Surey the Association need to pull their fingers
> out
Both Helen Armson from NER and Mal Arnold from EPP are on the NSWF board. They were both well aware of the issue before the forum brought it to light (if my memory serves me right, 3rd last game of the season).
Cross communication of meetings from NSWF and FNSW is making the process really slow. Seems like it's all very secretive because if the EPP coach is coming on here asking for updates and having a rant, it must mean Mal is not giving crap all away.
Mac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems Mac dragons has the same problem with
> their state league player.
Why put so much effort into making crap up?
Mac Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It seems Mac dragons has the same problem with
> their state league player.
Good try.
He cut all ties with his former club at end of 2019 season
I know the player from Dragons.
He played NPL in 2019 then went overseas for a while then found a new club for 2020.
Pretty simple.
Jack Fulton (as im led to believe) was registered with Manly then when Covid hit and NPL clubs said they werent going to pay some players, he left. But perhaps was still registered with Manly when also registered to NER.
The two cases are nothing alike.
Get a life pal
Oddball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This issue was first raised on this forum on
> October 15.
>
> I dont know if NWSF became aware of this by
> reading the forum (which they do, often) or
> beforehand.
>
> Give them the benefit of the doubt and say October
> 15, they have known about it for 7 weeks ago.
> How long does it take to investigate and make a
> decision on this?
>
> Meanwhile clubs are starting to trial players in
> the coming weeks and these two clubs dont even
> know which division they will be playing in next
> season.
>
> Surey the Association need to pull their fingers
> out
This.
How long does this need to drag out for? It's simple. If Fulton played 3 games registered with Manly and did not de-register when signing for NER then according to the constitution, its game over. If he was de-registered then its game over.
I disagree with the opinion that NER are not at fault (if Fulton rego was illegal) . If you're signing a NPL player then you should be triple checking whether he is still registered with that club or not. We know how strict NWSF are with abiding by the rules (I mean how many points deductions where there the previous season before of clubs playing too many reserve players for example).
Macquarie Dragons did it with their State League player
Epping Eastwood with Ollie Green.
I think this is a lesson for every club and for their registers. Memorise the rules back to the front and ensure that your PL/SL sides rego players in the correct way.
Would also like to say that Epping are the luckiest club out there. You can't pick a side full of injury prone primadonas and expect to not get shit results. They need to cull alot of average players starting with the likes of Cam Jones, Rubuen Forest etc. The SL Reserves side that won the comp the year before need to remain in Ressies. They aren't good enough to play at the top level.
Stan here EP FC coach....Very Frustrating....NER found an NPL player and stuffed up his registration for the first 3 games or the season. No one can tell me yes or no if rego is legit. if ileagal surely they are gone. December now and preseason starts mid january.. Our better players ar looking for other options because i have no info. Our president Mal cant be seen to be bias so nothing from him.. FU$K....
If youre worried just start planning for the superleague where you belong.
Is it really that important to you that you get to play premierleague instead of superleague so you can feel superior for 90mins every Saturday? puts some lead in the old pencil?
This isn't a challenge to stay in the EPL or the champions league its park football, not like youre missing out on the big TV rights deal
Justice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah but would rather play a shit team on a
> synthetic than a shit team on NER's dustbowl
>
> Rooting for Epping!
I was hoping that Saints would be the team in the doghouse for illegal rego because playing at Pudding is the EPL equivalent of playing on a cold Tuesday night at Stoke.
Agree though, we need Epping to stay up for the synthetic.
Epping is uncool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If youre worried just start planning for the
> superleague where you belong.
>
> Is it really that important to you that you get to
> play premierleague instead of superleague so you
> can feel superior for 90mins every Saturday? puts
> some lead in the old pencil?
>
> This isn't a challenge to stay in the EPL or the
> champions league its park football, not like youre
> missing out on the big TV rights deal
Tbh I think it's a reasonable point for both clubs. Who would want to try out for those two clubs if they don't know whether or not they are in PL or not?
Decision needs to be made soon for everyone's sake including this forum. We are almost at 80 posts about the same topic. That's embarrassing
Observer/Onlooker
wrote on 15-Oct-20 12:01Someone should investigate this further ? particularly Epping FC
Baseless
wrote on 15-Oct-20 12:02Care to shed light on this? Because he's been registered both times we played against NER.
Goodbye Nerds
wrote on 15-Oct-20 12:03What an end to the season this would be if its true - goodbye and RIP NERDS This would almost top gf... I'd say
Mack
wrote on 15-Oct-20 12:07So many points here that are very odd. We havent had written teamsheets for years. They wouldnt write him in anyway as if he isnt registered it would be a red flag. If he played the whole season why wouldnt he just register? If he really hasnt registered you would need photo or video evidence of him playing this season. I suggest you take this up with the Association
NER = Rats
wrote on 15-Oct-20 12:08Dig deeper he holds no registration, ring up NWSFA and request them to confirm his registration on the actual registration system More then likely they've manually written him into the team sheet however he's no registered
NER = Rats
wrote on 15-Oct-20 12:09Jack Fulton completed the whole premier league season with no registration to NER
How does this work, does anyone have the NWSFA competition rules? Playing 1 game with a unregistered normally means deduction of 3 points, what does it mean if its the whole season... they'd be in negative right ? and relegated
If I was the team being relegated, I'd be infuriated.
Its not that hard to get you admin right lol
Doesn't add up
wrote on 15-Oct-20 13:08NER = Rats Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Dig deeper he holds no registration, ring up NWSFA > and request them to confirm his registration on > the actual registration system > > More then likely they've manually written him into > the team sheet however he's no registered What do you mean he's not registered? You can't get onto the Icompman database without a valid rego number
Salty
wrote on 15-Oct-20 14:01No part of this make any sense Why would he be on the team list every week if he wasn't registered Why would some random be ringing NWSFA to check the registration status of opposition players. Not sure what nerds did to piss off so many teams this year, when we played them they were a shit team but no dirtier than any other team in the comp. First the hawks 'goal' drama now this, Epping FC must be desperate to stay up in prems
Jack
wrote on 15-Oct-20 14:06To late now seasons over. 16 plus goal @ 50each not to bad you do the sums.
Peel
wrote on 15-Oct-20 16:02Can confirm he is on the icompman database as a registered NER player for this season.
Idiot
wrote on 15-Oct-20 16:09Good try, EFC
Westpac
wrote on 15-Oct-20 17:08If the rumours are true, North epping paid him $200 a week to play. Imagine all the EEW gold diggers they could have got for that kind of coin..
others...
wrote on 16-Oct-20 15:08how would you feel if you were the other NER players? paying to play while others get paid...
Igor
wrote on 16-Oct-20 16:01Pretty sure everyone in this league wishes they were good enough to get paid to play football
Tom Rs
wrote on 16-Oct-20 16:02I wonder how many players in the comp get paid? I reckon you could count them on one hand comfortably. Does it go against the spirit of the competition? NER have form here as i believe they paid Nick Hugh to leave Macquarie Uni and play SL for them
Smort
wrote on 16-Oct-20 16:08Anyone who pays a player to kick a ball around at this level is beyond stupid. Its literally meaningless park football, if youre the player then gouge the fool for as much as you can get but if youre willing to fork out money to players at this level then please dont reproduce.
Oh well
wrote on 16-Oct-20 18:02I did hear around that Kenthurst and Brookvale FC in the Manly-Warringah Comp did or do pay certain players at this level
Ok mate
wrote on 17-Oct-20 00:05From previously experience the best you could get out of NER was free registration, usually to retain MVPs or secure new prospects. Paid to play would be a new, if that is the case with JF. Looks like he earned it.
Flogs
wrote on 17-Oct-20 09:02If NER had the budget to pay players pretty sure would have brought in some players to replace the useless flogs they had running around this year or that dickhead coach Jamal
Bon
wrote on 17-Oct-20 09:02After West Ryde Stole all their players, they had to do something to stay up...
Juice
wrote on 17-Oct-20 11:08Oh well Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I did hear around that Kenthurst and Brookvale FC > in the Manly-Warringah Comp did or do pay certain > players at this level Haha maybe cover rego for the odd player but thats about as far as KEN went lol
.
wrote on 20-Oct-20 19:00Am a mate of Nick's. He didn't get paid at NER. Wanted to play with Anthony Kalidas who came over from the UK and knew some other NER players. You all sound like a bunch of flops who make assumptions on an online forum. I'll back someone else's comment..NER are shut but other players/people from teams in this league just sound like complete losers.
Music is my aeroplane
wrote on 29-Oct-20 21:00Isnt he the singer of the Chilli Peppers?
update
wrote on 10-Nov-20 18:05Has anyone heard of any updates on Jack Fulton rego? Heard it was true... are NER losing points? does committee know? Any GOSSIP ????
update
wrote on 10-Nov-20 18:05Has anyone heard of any updates on Jack Fulton rego? Heard it was true... are NER losing points? does committee know? Any GOSSIP ????
Voltaren Rapid
wrote on 10-Nov-20 21:00I heard a club lodged an appeal on PL/SL promotion/relegation as a full season wasnt played so therefore unconstitutional. Unlucky for Dragons if true.
Johnny Magic
wrote on 11-Nov-20 08:02A club haha give up epping you degenerates. Was voted on and you werent good enough last season suck it up
NeR
wrote on 11-Nov-20 09:03Been hearing some interesting developments that the rumours are indeed true about Jack Fulton. NER looks like they will be going down...
Voltaren Rapid
wrote on 11-Nov-20 09:04it definitely didn't come from an Epping club
Lets hope
wrote on 11-Nov-20 10:01Great, one less shit field in the comp.
Joke
wrote on 11-Nov-20 10:06Lets hope Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Great, one less shit field in the comp. Lets say that NER stay up next season. They will no doubt lose Fulton to NPL, what an embarrassment they will be next season... Only reason why they did half as well was because he carried them single-handedly out of relegation. Otherwise those spuds would not get close to 7 points this season. They have to do some serious recruiting, otherwise it might be the most painful moment of their history.
Con Tradiction
wrote on 11-Nov-20 13:01Epping are cool Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Really disappointed.... > whats the point of having rules..? > so we now have the OK go get a star player for > next season, > and they dont have to register? > maybe someones mate who plays in a higher league? Apologies, i thought you were talking about the relegation issue with the vote
Update
wrote on 11-Nov-20 13:01Who and when decides???
Con Tradiction
wrote on 11-Nov-20 13:09Epping are cool Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Im from Epping > We were shit but played by the rules .... > so if this is true we deserve to stay up in PL I think you contradicted yourself there pal. In any case epping committee have already said they are going down without a fuss as thats what was voted on. It seems to be another club which this doesnt affect with an axe to grind. Everyone else happy with the vote and props to epping for not wanting to move tge goalposts after being relegated
Epping are cool
wrote on 11-Nov-20 13:09Really disappointed.... whats the point of having rules..? so we now have the OK go get a star player for next season, and they dont have to register? maybe someones mate who plays in a higher league?
Epping are cool
wrote on 11-Nov-20 13:09Im from Epping We were shit but played by the rules .... so if this is true we deserve to stay up in PL
consensus
wrote on 11-Nov-20 14:01Con Tradiction Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Epping are cool Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Im from Epping > > We were shit but played by the rules .... > > so if this is true we deserve to stay up in PL > > > I think you contradicted yourself there pal. > In any case epping committee have already said > they are going down without a fuss as thats what > was voted on. > It seems to be another club which this doesnt > affect with an axe to grind. > Everyone else happy with the vote and props to > epping for not wanting to move tge goalposts after > being relegated If Jack played unregistered then im sure all PL clubs would have a problem with that, not just Epping.. Rules are rules, and it clearly effected the table. If it's true they should be relegated.
Hows that possible.
wrote on 11-Nov-20 14:02How can you say that they played shit football when they had an international coach..
What
wrote on 11-Nov-20 14:04Peel Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Can confirm he is on the icompman database as a > registered NER player for this season. Why is this argument still going on when a known poster from Ravens confirmed Jack was registered. Theres literally zero evidence showing NER did anything wrong aside from being shit at football
Juice
wrote on 11-Nov-20 15:06Fulton was on NER's team sheets in icompman. Registered, end of story.
Toovey
wrote on 11-Nov-20 16:05True Juice. But what they are saying is that he wasnt deregisted from manly.
Deep End
wrote on 11-Nov-20 16:05Toovey Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > True Juice. > But what they are saying is that he wasnt > deregisted from manly. If that's the case, then that is on FNSW & NWSF not NER as both FNSW & NWSF would have had to approve his NWSF registration
FBI
wrote on 11-Nov-20 21:05The only the matter can be investigated is if a formal complaint is lodged by a club. GPT cant investigate anything on the basis of a rumour, doesnt matter if the season is over it can still be investigated.
So???
wrote on 11-Nov-20 22:03Voltaren Rapid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > it definitely didn't come from an Epping club So what was the result tonight pal?
Voltaren Rapid
wrote on 12-Nov-20 10:08So??? Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Voltaren Rapid Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > it definitely didn't come from an Epping club > > > So what was the result tonight pal? NSW 34 QLD 10
Heads or tails
wrote on 12-Nov-20 11:05Voltaren Rapid Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So??? Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Voltaren Rapid Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > it definitely didn't come from an Epping club > > > > > > So what was the result tonight pal? > > NSW 34 QLD 10 Tail between your legs? Get a life big boy
Ex GPT MEMBER
wrote on 12-Nov-20 14:05The current GPT board Are corrupt they have their favourite clubs.you just have to look at some of the suspension they have handed down this year its mind boggling.
What is going on...
wrote on 12-Nov-20 15:08Ex GPT MEMBER Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The current GPT board Are corrupt they have their > favourite clubs.you just have to look at some of > the suspension they have handed down this year > its mind boggling. Why is it that the same person is commenting on this post on a regular basis, using different names? You do know that comments are tracked via IP Addresses... Just wait for the process to finish. Calling out the GPT ain't gonna do anything for your favour if you actually want to remain in PL for next season...
FBI
wrote on 13-Nov-20 17:06What is going on... Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Ex GPT MEMBER Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The current GPT board Are corrupt they have > their > > favourite clubs.you just have to look at some > of > > the suspension they have handed down this year > > its mind boggling. > > Why is it that the same person is commenting on > this post on a regular basis, using different > names? You do know that comments are tracked via > IP Addresses... > > Just wait for the process to finish. Calling out > the GPT ain't gonna do anything for your favour if > you actually want to remain in PL for next > season... Do you know how a GPT panel is appointed? Its not the same panel of members every time there is a hearing. The current GPT Chairperson Kath Odgers is out of her depth when it comes to this role. The same can be said of NWSF General Manager Mark Lockie, his distribution of required paperwork through a process has been less than diligent. If either of these 2 people cant do the job correctly then find another position.
Yep
wrote on 13-Nov-20 18:00Yep agree about Kath Odgers. I know everyone says they are innocent but one of my players got a suspension for nothing. I proved the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted as such. Same suspension stood. Wanted to save face i suppose. How do you compete with that?
FBI
wrote on 13-Nov-20 19:09Yep Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yep agree about Kath Odgers. > I know everyone says they are innocent but one of > my players got a suspension for nothing. I proved > the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted as > such. > Same suspension stood. > Wanted to save face i suppose. > How do you compete with that? Whilst Kath Odgers doesnt sit on an GPT or AT panel she is responsible for providing documentation to those who have been charged with an Offence under the Table of Offences. Between Kath Odgers and Mark Lockie the delivery of documentation such as evidence to be relied upon is provided in a drip fed rate across a number of days. No idea, either of them.
Not all bad...
wrote on 15-Nov-20 16:03FBI Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yep Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Yep agree about Kath Odgers. > > I know everyone says they are innocent but one > of > > my players got a suspension for nothing. I > proved > > the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted as > > such. > > Same suspension stood. > > Wanted to save face i suppose. > > How do you compete with that? > > Whilst Kath Odgers doesnt sit on an GPT or AT > panel she is responsible for providing > documentation to those who have been charged with > an Offence under the Table of Offences. > > Between Kath Odgers and Mark Lockie the delivery > of documentation such as evidence to be relied > upon is provided in a drip fed rate across a > number of days. > > No idea, either of them. GPT havent been all bad this year. A NER coach in the womens comp this year basically escaped a season ban because he was falsely accused by the ref of swearing at him when it was the crowd. Coach was let off after multiple statements from different witnesses and the ref got reprimanded.
The boys
wrote on 16-Nov-20 08:04Not all bad... Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > FBI Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Yep Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Yep agree about Kath Odgers. > > > I know everyone says they are innocent but > one > > of > > > my players got a suspension for nothing. I > > proved > > > the ref was wrong/lying and the GPT admitted > as > > > such. > > > Same suspension stood. > > > Wanted to save face i suppose. > > > How do you compete with that? > > > > Whilst Kath Odgers doesnt sit on an GPT or > AT > > panel she is responsible for providing > > documentation to those who have been charged > with > > an Offence under the Table of Offences. > > > > Between Kath Odgers and Mark Lockie the > delivery > > of documentation such as evidence to be relied > > upon is provided in a drip fed rate across a > > number of days. > > > > No idea, either of them. > > GPT havent been all bad this year. > > A NER coach in the womens comp this year > basically escaped a season ban because he was > falsely accused by the ref of swearing at him when > it was the crowd. > > Coach was let off after multiple statements from > different witnesses and the ref got reprimanded. Did that coach happen to be related to a certain normo coach that got a similar suspension? Maybe its a family trait
Epping are cool
wrote on 16-Nov-20 11:08Anyone know when and if the Committee have taken points fron North Epping?
Nerd
wrote on 16-Nov-20 13:01Apparently not related. The person your talking about coaches AA2.
CIA Plumber
wrote on 16-Nov-20 13:07I think you will find reports from officials, witnesses, opposition coach and managers that some come signed and some not signed that need to be chased and or Club response timings all impacts the flow of GPT paperwork. Throw in a COVID year where people have less access to their office and scanners to forward signed statements hasn't helped. Not all eye witnesses first priority in life is writing and signing statements about footballers punching on or abusing others in Park Football.
Nerdburgers
wrote on 16-Nov-20 16:05Can we stop whinging about the GPT and get back to trying to get the ratdog NERDs out of the PL? I heard from a friend that the young guys in ressies were offered juice to help bulk up. Whats the drug testing policy of nwsfa?
Epping is cool
wrote on 16-Nov-20 18:09Fulton was still registered with manly for first 3 games..!! When do the jokers meet to make it official?
Real facts
wrote on 17-Nov-20 00:05Epping is cool Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Fulton was still registered with manly for first 3 > games..!! > When do the jokers meet to make it official? Lay off the drugs, too much smack talk without any facts coming from ya - sorry epping fc got relegated in the end, wasnt strong enough to survive this season
Efc123
wrote on 27-Nov-20 18:04Any updates on the hearings? I'm still trying to work out if I'm playing with Epping FC next year or in the premier league
Confirmed
wrote on 30-Nov-20 18:07It's confirmed. North Epping are going down, Epping staying in PL What a finish to a season!!!
Fake news
wrote on 30-Nov-20 23:06Confirmed Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It's confirmed. North Epping are going down, > Epping staying in PL > What a finish to a season!!! Surely youre on something, where are your sources from?!
Still going
wrote on 01-Dec-20 17:07The process is still going ahead. Jack Fulton has created a technical problem within the registration process however as someone previously has posted, the reason why the decision is taking long is determining whether NER should be stripped away from the PL based on a FNSW/NWSF error of judgment. NER have done no wrong. But technically by the book, it's completely unfair for the rest of the comp that a mix-up in the de-registering of a player has meant that they have stayed in the PL when everyone knows that if this player didn't play, NER would have barely got 5 points. Don't you worry. We will know the result. The Epping coach (stan) who has been posting anonymously under his work email address will be either fuming if Epp go down or be sticking it to everyone on the forum if NER go down. The above poster is only hearing the strong rumours that it is very likely that Epping will stay up but the complications around everything means everyone needs to be more patient.
Oddball
wrote on 02-Dec-20 10:09This issue was first raised on this forum on October 15. I dont know if NWSF became aware of this by reading the forum (which they do, often) or beforehand. Give them the benefit of the doubt and say October 15, they have known about it for 7 weeks ago. How long does it take to investigate and make a decision on this? Meanwhile clubs are starting to trial players in the coming weeks and these two clubs dont even know which division they will be playing in next season. Surey the Association need to pull their fingers out
NSWF Document
wrote on 02-Dec-20 12:03For those interested. Here are the constitutional regulations around player registration straight from NSWF. 5.3. PLAYERS REGISTERED TEAM 5.3.1. No player may be registered with more than one Football Association at any one time in any one competition season. 5.3.2. No player may be registered with more than one Member Club of the Association at any one time in any one competition season. 5.3.3. No player may be registered with more than one team with the Association at any one time in any one competition season. 5.3.4. Any registered player proved to have played in any competition match of Association Football outside the Association without the permission of the DM may be suspended for a period to be determined by the GPT. 5.3.5 To be eligible to play in round 1 of the winter season, players must be registered in the Associations competition management system and authorised by their Club no later than 10am on the Tuesday prior to the first round and be authorised by the Association prior to the commencement of the round. 5.3.6 Subject to clause 5.3.7, for players registering after round 1, provided players are registered in the Associations competition management system and authorised by their Club by 10am on Wednesday, and authorised by the Association prior to the round, they are eligible to play from the immediately following weekends round 5.3.7 No player may be registered with the Association after close of business, two full working days prior to the 30 June. Clubs must seek confirmation from the Association that players being registered in the last week prior to 30 June are authorised by the Association prior to their participation in a fixture. 5.4. PLAYER REGISTRATION PROCESS 5.4.1. Any person wishing to participate in competitions, or matches conducted by the Association shall be properly registered with the Association. 5.4.2. No contracted player shall register with the Association. 5.4.3. Any player under suspension or disqualification from any Association, Federation or Club may be accepted for registration, but cannot play or otherwise take any part in any match until the period of suspension has been served in full. Suspended players must be registered to serve their sentence. 5.4.4. A player shall become a registered player with the Association once all of the following have taken place 5.4.4.1. The player, or parent/guardian if the player is under the age of 18 years at the date of registration, has completed and authorised an FFA Registration System electronic registration thus agreeing to abide by the Rules and Regulations of FFA, FNSW, the Association and the Club. 5.4.4.2. The player has paid the relevant Club registration fee. 5.4.4.3. The Club has submitted to the Association the players registration and digital photograph in the manner prescribed by the Association. 5.4.5. Registration of a player requires submission to the Association of a digital photograph of the player meeting the requirements of this clause and of Schedule 3 (Clause 08). Registration of players will not be accepted if they are submitted without a suitable digital photograph, or with digital photographs not meeting these requirements. 5.4.5.1. Registered photographs shall be updated a minimum of every two (2) years for players seeking registration in Grades up to Under 16 years. 5.4.5.2. Photographs for players seeking registration in Grades Under 17 to All Age, Over Age, Premier League and Super League shall be updated a minimum of every three (3) years. 5.4.5.3. The registered photograph shall be updated where the Club or the Association considers a player has sufficiently changed their appearance, or that the submitted photograph does meet requirements, such that the player is not easily recognised from the current registration photograph. 5.4.6. For the purposes of the Accident Support Program, a player is considered registered with the Club from the time they complete the aforesaid FFA Registration System electronic registration and may submit a claim to the insurance company upon the Club completing the players registration with the Association. 5.4.7. Where a player has a legal name change during the current competition year, they shall notify their Club and the Club shall notify the Association in writing of the players legal name for the Association to update team registrations and Photo IDs. 5.5. CHANGING A PLAYERS REGISTERED TEAM AND/OR CLUB 5.5.1. A Club may apply to the DM in writing for permission for a player to be downgraded within their Club where they are Age Eligible for the lower grade. Downgrading for players from the grade/division in which they are registered to another grade or division shall cease after the fourth match of the Premiership Competition. 5.5.2. A Club may apply to the DM in writing for permission for a player to be transferred within their Club between Mixed and Womens competitions where they are Age Eligible and Gender Eligible for the new grade. Such transfers shall cease after the fourth match of the Premiership Competition of the players currently registered team. 5.5.3. A player having been registered with the Association as a member of a Club may deregister from that Club and register with another Club upon the Club notifying the Association in writing that the player has been deregistered in the FFA Registration System. 5.5.4. Where a player deregisters from one Club and registers with another Club, the Association shall determine the fees to be charged to each Club, ensuring players and Clubs are not double charged for the same service (e.g. insurance). 5.5.5. No registered player may deregister from one Club and register with another Club on more than one occasion in any one competition season. 5.5.6. Any player who seeks to deregister from one Club and register with another Club and is refused a clearance from their Club may appeal in writing to the DM for permission to register with another Club. 5.5.7. No player may be deregistered from one Club and registered with another Club, or from one team to another team within a Club, after the close of player registrations as in Clause 0. 5.5.8. For Mixed and Womens Competitions, if an affiliated Club has more than one registered team playing in the same grade and division, it shall not permit any player to interchange within these teams unless the interchange is previously sanctioned by the DM. 5.5.9. For Mixed and Womens Competitions, transfer of the registration of a player of a Club between teams in the same grade and division or in the same grade and a lower division may be sanctioned by the DM.
THE CIA
wrote on 02-Dec-20 12:03Oddball Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This issue was first raised on this forum on > October 15. > > I dont know if NWSF became aware of this by > reading the forum (which they do, often) or > beforehand. > > Give them the benefit of the doubt and say October > 15, they have known about it for 7 weeks ago. > How long does it take to investigate and make a > decision on this? > > Meanwhile clubs are starting to trial players in > the coming weeks and these two clubs dont even > know which division they will be playing in next > season. > > Surey the Association need to pull their fingers > out Both Helen Armson from NER and Mal Arnold from EPP are on the NSWF board. They were both well aware of the issue before the forum brought it to light (if my memory serves me right, 3rd last game of the season). Cross communication of meetings from NSWF and FNSW is making the process really slow. Seems like it's all very secretive because if the EPP coach is coming on here asking for updates and having a rant, it must mean Mal is not giving crap all away.
Pelican
wrote on 02-Dec-20 18:00Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems Mac dragons has the same problem with > their state league player. Why put so much effort into making crap up?
Mac
wrote on 02-Dec-20 18:03It seems Mac dragons has the same problem with their state league player.
Graheme B
wrote on 02-Dec-20 18:04Mac Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems Mac dragons has the same problem with > their state league player. Good try. He cut all ties with his former club at end of 2019 season
Francois
wrote on 02-Dec-20 19:06I know the player from Dragons. He played NPL in 2019 then went overseas for a while then found a new club for 2020. Pretty simple. Jack Fulton (as im led to believe) was registered with Manly then when Covid hit and NPL clubs said they werent going to pay some players, he left. But perhaps was still registered with Manly when also registered to NER. The two cases are nothing alike. Get a life pal
Outsider
wrote on 02-Dec-20 19:09Oddball Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This issue was first raised on this forum on > October 15. > > I dont know if NWSF became aware of this by > reading the forum (which they do, often) or > beforehand. > > Give them the benefit of the doubt and say October > 15, they have known about it for 7 weeks ago. > How long does it take to investigate and make a > decision on this? > > Meanwhile clubs are starting to trial players in > the coming weeks and these two clubs dont even > know which division they will be playing in next > season. > > Surey the Association need to pull their fingers > out This. How long does this need to drag out for? It's simple. If Fulton played 3 games registered with Manly and did not de-register when signing for NER then according to the constitution, its game over. If he was de-registered then its game over. I disagree with the opinion that NER are not at fault (if Fulton rego was illegal) . If you're signing a NPL player then you should be triple checking whether he is still registered with that club or not. We know how strict NWSF are with abiding by the rules (I mean how many points deductions where there the previous season before of clubs playing too many reserve players for example). Macquarie Dragons did it with their State League player Epping Eastwood with Ollie Green. I think this is a lesson for every club and for their registers. Memorise the rules back to the front and ensure that your PL/SL sides rego players in the correct way. Would also like to say that Epping are the luckiest club out there. You can't pick a side full of injury prone primadonas and expect to not get shit results. They need to cull alot of average players starting with the likes of Cam Jones, Rubuen Forest etc. The SL Reserves side that won the comp the year before need to remain in Ressies. They aren't good enough to play at the top level.
Epping is cool
wrote on 02-Dec-20 20:09Stan here EP FC coach....Very Frustrating....NER found an NPL player and stuffed up his registration for the first 3 games or the season. No one can tell me yes or no if rego is legit. if ileagal surely they are gone. December now and preseason starts mid january.. Our better players ar looking for other options because i have no info. Our president Mal cant be seen to be bias so nothing from him.. FU$K....
Justice
wrote on 03-Dec-20 10:00Yeah but would rather play a shit team on a synthetic than a shit team on NER's dustbowl Rooting for Epping!
Epping is uncool
wrote on 03-Dec-20 10:05If youre worried just start planning for the superleague where you belong. Is it really that important to you that you get to play premierleague instead of superleague so you can feel superior for 90mins every Saturday? puts some lead in the old pencil? This isn't a challenge to stay in the EPL or the champions league its park football, not like youre missing out on the big TV rights deal
Tuesdays @ Stoke
wrote on 03-Dec-20 10:05Justice Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah but would rather play a shit team on a > synthetic than a shit team on NER's dustbowl > > Rooting for Epping! I was hoping that Saints would be the team in the doghouse for illegal rego because playing at Pudding is the EPL equivalent of playing on a cold Tuesday night at Stoke. Agree though, we need Epping to stay up for the synthetic.
Reasonable
wrote on 03-Dec-20 13:00Epping is uncool Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > If youre worried just start planning for the > superleague where you belong. > > Is it really that important to you that you get to > play premierleague instead of superleague so you > can feel superior for 90mins every Saturday? puts > some lead in the old pencil? > > This isn't a challenge to stay in the EPL or the > champions league its park football, not like youre > missing out on the big TV rights deal Tbh I think it's a reasonable point for both clubs. Who would want to try out for those two clubs if they don't know whether or not they are in PL or not? Decision needs to be made soon for everyone's sake including this forum. We are almost at 80 posts about the same topic. That's embarrassing